DISQUS Doodlings – "Water is a Human Right?" - Granite Grok

DISQUS Doodlings – “Water is a Human Right?”

Eco-Socialism

Just so many topics covered here in the TreeHugger post “Good News for the Rich: Their Fancy Showers Can Waste More Water“. Just another reminder that the “world’s largest site for sustainability issues” is rapidly dropping the “sustainability” mask and replacing it with the Eco-Socialist (heavy emphasis on the Socialist bit) mask.

Related: DISQUS Doodlings – The eco-socialism mask drops from Treehugger

Lloyd, the author of the post started slipping a while ago and this snarky title was not meant in a humorous manner. He is making it clear, like many academician faculty lounge denizens, he feels that capitalism should be replaced by socialism. Led by such luminaries as himself (and others of like minds; they never realize they’re the useful idiots of their own demise. Never do they learn from history).

It is a constant refrain from the United States president that he hates the rules about water-saving appliances and fixtures. He says the toilets need to be flushed “10 times, 15 times” and he’s “heard from women” that dishwashers don’t clean, and the showers! They go “drip, drip, drip.” He complained recently while touring a Whirlpool factory…

And yes, this No Humor / No Fun League professor doesn’t seem to “get” satire and snark (even though he does tolerate me – more on that later). But this post is about water usage. That said, however, runs flat into the brick wall that is also a bugaboo of mine – the constant redefinition of words by the Left. Who knew that a post on Showerheads and toilets would be talking about Rights?  First, we set the stage (emphasis mine):

Matt Hermenau  ->Vindaloo Bugaboo:   In many parts of the world water is a non-renewable resource. If you use all the water for your vanity shower today, then someone who needs the water tomorrow bears the burden.

We hear this argument all the time – if you use too much of X, somebody else suffers; you are SELFISH for not using less than you need. I’ve hated this since I was wrong when Mom told me to eat everything on my place because kids in China were going hungry. I looked up from the table and not-so-innocently asked:

Name two, Mommy?

Needless to say, I learned about the palates of different kinds of soaps that day. So I responded to Hermenau the only way that was correct:

GraniteGrok  -> Matt Hermenau:   Then in those many parts, they should adapt policies that fit the conditions. Seriously, you want water rationing in Seattle just because Texas has a shortage in comparison? That’s not a spectacularly brilliant idea to hold.  Or do you expect Seattle to “share” their “excess water” with Texas?

And got a bit of backup from the other Conservative that haunts TreeHugger:

Vindaloo Bugaboo->Matt Hermenau:  In those “many parts of the world” where water is a non-renewable resource, good luck actually having showers in the first place. Most likely the people living in those areas are lucky to take a bath once a month, and it’s going to be in a river or lake or using something other than a standard Western society showerhead. In other words, apples to oranges comparison.

There were more comparisons made, with one person stating that potable water on a ship was a scarce resource with the implication that we all on land have to cut back but I haven’t even gotten to my main point. So, let’s go there straight away and introduce you to the dunce that wrote the words:

brandon:   No one should have to pay for water in America. Access to clean, water is a basic human right and no one should pay taxes for access to it.

Er, no. Again, I blame our poor educational system for not teaching basic Civics. And, of course, basic economics. Any fool that takes a moment to think of what it takes to supply the water that comes out of a tap (or in this case, Showerheads, or sued in toilets) should realize that anything that is paid to Government to supply such a service is a tax (whether it is called a “service fee” or some such otherness). But the cost is more irrelevant to me than calling water a Right. I’m TIRED of people asserting that pretty much anything they can think of is a “right”.

GraniteGrok: No, it is NOT a basic human right – you’d have to force someone to give their time and talent to provide that water to you. You’re conflating a right with an entitlement as there is a cost, sometimes high costs, to provide that which you think should be “free”..

But let’s play that game – if everyone else decides that they won’t pay for you (via taxes), tell me how the unicorn and pixie dust throwers are going to provide it? I certainly won’t mine the metals needed to make the pipes, won’t run the heavy machinery to form the pipes, transport those pipes to where they are needed, dig the trenches, lay the pipe, cover the trench and re-asphalt the road. Let’s add to that the building of the buildings that will house all the control mechanisms (mechanical and electrical). I also wouldn’t do the necessary supervision of all of those systems to just make sure that entitled you get a glass of water.

And I haven’t even started in on the sewer return processes.

The fact that you think that all of this should be free (and I’ve only touched on part of the costs) to you and that others will just work for free from you is a rather selfish and entitled outlook.

Which is why I call Andru Volinsky a Selfish Socialist. He believes that he can make everything “free” for anyone like any other Bernie Sanders acolyte – and they NEVER talk about the cost involved.

I can also add that this is Fantasyland thinking and devoid of real world systems thinking. But, I am trying to be gentle and looking at this as a “teachable” moment (the latter, perhaps, looking like an effort akin to climbing Mt. Everest).

But if free you want, feel free to go to the local creek and freely drink your fill – for free. Then be prepared to head to the hospital once all those microscopic bad stuff decide to freely send you a message that “free” isn’t exactly free.

And then another misinformed, ill-thinking person decided to pipe up extend this illogical thinking. I don’t think he fancied my reasoning either. Note that he can’t divine which should water be: a right or an entitlement:

einsteinismyidol: There are trolls everywhere! Clean water should be a human right. Or as you state ‘an entitlement’.

GraniteGrok:   Ha! I’ve been around here for years.

My Right to Free Speech is unalienable due to my being a human. Under the Founders vision that restricting Government’s actions to a few enumerated Powers resulted in maximal Individual Liberty, the American Bill of Rights is a set of negative Rights – what Government CAN’T do to you. Thus, the Govt cannot stop me from speaking out. I can climb up on my soapbox and there isn’t anything Govt can do to stop me. Conversely, it is not allowed to HELP me spread my message.

At the same time, even as I speak, YOU are not required to do anythingYOU don’t have to help me and, in fact, you can just walk away (the Freedom of Association allows you to pick who you would be with – and not) without listening. My Right to Free Speech costs only me (my time and my soapbox). YOU, on the other hand, have no need to do anything, directly or indirectly (via Govt) to support that Right of mine. It belongs solely to me just as your Right to Speech belongs solely to you.

With that as the standard definition, how can “clean” water be a Right – the point I was trying to make above? You could try to persuade thousands of people to work for free just to serve you a cold glass of water – but your efforts would likely go unheeded. The only alternative is to FORCE others to serve you – and we know what the word is for that.

So, without anyone having to do anything for your “Right to clean water”, it’s all on you, dude. So, what IS your plan for having a “Right” to clean water? Otherwise, without a plan, simply stating that it is a “Right” is a mere hollow platitude.

So, he tried deflecting to another subject. Not all that swift but that’s what they do if they can’t answer back (i.e., know the subject matter and anticipate the line of argument). In this case, it was the same thing – yet something else should be a “right” simply because PULLING ON HEART STRINGS!

einsteinismyidol:   Trolls live for years. I’m also an advocate if mental health treatment as a right. Something you should support as well

GraniteGrok:   No, it isn’t. And no, I don’t.

Again, that would be FORCING me to enslave someone else by taking their time and talent simply for my benefit. And I’ve all but given away what that is called, haven’t I? It seems, however, that you have no problem with enforcing that concept by your own words.

The Left does seem to have this penchant that EVERYTHING in life should be free to everyone. Those holding this value or outlook never talk, however, about the actual cost of providing for those services – and never mention the reality is that none of it is “Free” – you, and everyone else will pay for it one way or another. That’s the major fairytale of Socialism, Communitarianism, and Communism. I just happen to speak the quiet part out loud.

Heinlein had it right – TANSTAAFL: There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. The only people who don’t believe that are dunderheads and those preying on those dunderheads.

And then the eventual toss off by the younger set, akin to the “HALLIBURTON!” crie de coeur of the Left during the first Iraq War in which all that was wrong with Bush, capitalism, war, a free Society, and the rest, was wrapped up into a single work. My debating partner had to use two words:

einsteinismyidol: Ok boomer

GraniteGrok: Such a great example of rhetorical flair for a lackluster retort from someone that has Einstein as part of their handle!
Trolls live for years.
So simply because I’m not in lockstep with your political view, that makes me a troll? I present my opinions respectfully (albeit, at times, with a wee bit of snark). Heck, at times, other denizens and I actually agree on some things. Trolls never agree with the topic of the day and they get downright nasty.

And Matt finally returned, to close the circle, in making the same lame supposition, albeit in a bit different form:

Image calling water an entitlement.

Sigh. repetez avec moi, s’il vous plaît:

GraniteGrok:   If you want to drink the water where is it (a puddle, a pond, a lake, a river, the sea), go for it. Then it is free. Otherwise somebody has to filter it, treat it, transport it, and deliver it. There is a cost to each of those components as well as the reverse sewer flow.

So, Mr. “Water is a Right”, if a Right is free, how do you square that with the (wait for it…Lloyd’s favorite words of late…!) “embedded cost” of that water? Once there is a cost, there is no Right. It is then an entitlement that must be paid for by someone else. I.E., you would be forcing someone else to pay the cost of your “Right”. Which means it isn’t a Right at all.

This is the great lie and failure of Socialism (at least in today’s America) that EVERYTHING CAN BE FREE and that the cost is disassociated from reality – TANSTAAFL. There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Someone always has to pay but Socialist politicians are promising FREE healthcare, FREE education, FREE housing, FREE food….it never stops.

And everything is treated as a “RIGHT” which actually translates to “Everyone OWES me something” just because I am alive. That’s a selfish way to go through life.

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