We are back to battling the Eco-Socialist’s over at Treehugger. This time, it isn’t so much the politics “of the thing.” Rather, it’s them saying something stupid about technology.
Like claiming something that isn’t in evidence, and not understanding how new things get into mass adoption and production, and then roll out to consumers.
And “freedomEV” didn’t cotton too much to the takedown.
The moral of the story is that when you see the Left making an assertion that you KNOW isn’t true, especially in support of a “greater Narrative,” it needs to be stopped. In this case, the “greater” Narrative is that they are trying to deep six the very obvious superiority of ICE (“Internal Combustion Engine” that run on gas or diesel) when it comes to “filling up.”
It can take me a mere 3 minutes to go from completely empty to full in pulling up to the gas pump compared to taking over 12 hours to “fill up” an electric car.
So freedomEV decided to go all in and making a claim he couldn’t in supporting the greater Narrative that the wait time will disappear so why stick with that polluting ICE vehicle? The push is on to make EVERY switch to EVs.
And I’m not having any of it. I’m tired of having choices taken away by special interest groups and Socialist/Progressives who believe that Government SHOULD make all decisions “because it’s good for you and the “community”. I’m also tired of having other States making that decision for us here in NH (like RGGI) and other States that tie themselves to those other States (like Vermont that tied itself to what California decides to be its Law of the Land) as the TH post outlines: “California Unveils Plan to Phase Out New Gas-Powered Cars by 2035“. By their sheer size, passing such an ordinance will force the industry to bend to their will. With CA’s policy decision, other States had no choice in the matter. Even as NH hasn’t agreed to follow NH, just the population of the other “tied by the nose”, we here in NH may not have a choice.
So, back to the “assertion”:
freedomev: Big auto needs it so they can survive by being forced to produce EVs. What is not apparent to most people is by 2026 buying an ICE will be a losing proposition. By then EVs will charge 75% in 12 minutes, cost less to build, make free charging, money buying, selling plus emergency power, with great resale value. Vs an ICE then cost more to build but because fuel costs $7-$8/gal as have to pay the full pollution, etc costs will lose 50% driving off the lot at a price big auto can’t make money on.
So just who will be making ICEs in 2030 only to lose money? Much less 2035?
So much to unpack in so little time. He forgets (or ignores) everything about TANSTAAFL (“There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch” – Robert Heinlein). He makes the claim that energy is free with his claim of “free charging”. Sorry dude but just because Govt is putting them into place (Biden wants to spend $7.5 Billion to set up EV charging areas), it isn’t free. Taxes will be raised to pay for the purchase, the installation, running the electric lines, and the recurring costs of “buying those electrons” so that you can have “free charging”.
And to be sure, Govt will raise taxes another way to replace the gas taxes that they will no longer be able to charge. But that’s back into politics – and I said at the top this was a technically oriented post.
So back to “By then EVs will charge 75% in 12 minutes” and knowing that battery technology has lagged almost all other types of technology in cares. Sure, there are advances that have been made, and there are several promising developments in the lap, NONE of them are ready for deployment NOW. And I told him so – and you can see he wasn’t happy (if you read GraniteGrok, you can see this has become a running battle with me FOR HIM. Me? It’s just fun.) and goes right to the ad hominem attack one someone that spoils his happy talk from the Moral High Ground:
GraniteGrok: EVs will charge 75% in 12 minutes
Do you really expect any such battery tech to leap from the labs to commercial quantities in less than 4 years?Delusional.
I’m sure that new battery tech will come about – but in 2026? I’m not a battery expert or a physical chemist so I can’t speak to specifics. That said, it isn’t going to happen in 4 years. That said…
freedomev: Are you that stupid? I have cells that easily handle 6 minute,LG/Volt, others, charging that are 8 yrs old. They only reason I said 12 minutes and chargers end up being too big. Any cell 6c or higher and most cells are now can easily handle it. It is the rest of the wiring, cooling, outlet and contactor needs upgrading to handle the power, is all.
Note that he’s talking SMALL batteries – and that may well be true. But that’s not VEHICLE sized batteries where things get a lot more complicated. But again, I wasn’t going to allow him to do a “breakthrough Narrative” without challenging it. So, a few minutes of searching with “How long does it take to charge an electric vehicle” formed my response. I wasn’t surprised at the answers that proved him wrong TODAY but gives him nothing on which to base that assertion:
GraniteGrok freedomev • 3 days ago
A vehicle battery is no small thing.Level 1: This is the electricity that is available from the outlets in your house. It is roughly 120 volts. Charging this way is extremely slow. ChargePoint, which operates a network of independently owned EV charging stations, estimates that charging a 100-mile car battery at Level 1 takes 17-20 hours.
Level 1: This is the type of charging you get when you plug your EV into your regular 120-volt household outlet, the same one you plug your computer, cell phone, or toaster into. Level 1 charging makes for impractically long charging times, since the battery acquires somewhere between three to five miles of range per hour of charge. This means, for example, that the owner of a rear-wheel drive extended range Ford Mustang Mach-E will have to wait about 75 hours to fully charge their vehicle. Not exactly enticing.
Level 1: About 5 miles of added range per hour of charging
Level 2: About 25 miles of added range per hour of charging
Level 3: About 200 miles of added range per hour of charging…Level 2 chargers typically add something like 25 miles of charge per hour. That means you’d add 250 miles of range in 10 hours, provided your EV has that much range. That’s enough to take care of anyone’s daily commute.
..Some public car-charging stations are Level 3 “fast chargers.” On compatible EVs (which most currently available models are), they can give you lots of range in a hurry: A fast charge can typically bring an EV to an 80% charge level in less than an hour, which in most cases translates to roughly 200 miles in an hour, though this varies by charger and vehicle.
I’m not paying the large amount of what an electrician would cost to put a Level 2 into my garage with is about 100 feet away and about 30 feet downgrade from my home. Few homeowners could afford a Level 3.
So 120v Level 1. And YOU’RE telling me that 10 hours is going to collapse to 12 minutes for a mid-sized EV “fill up”? That’s delusional thinking over a very short 4 year span.
Even if there was a technology disruption, of major proportions, it would STILL take longer than 4 years for adoption and deployment to mass markets to occur.
I’m not saying it CAN’T happen in the future – just that it doesn’t happen now and it isn’t going to happen in 4 years. Even those, above, that know more than me point out it takes hours, not minutes. But FreedomEV does the usual Political denigration of someone challenging him:
freedomev: I guess you are stupid. I already explained it and some EVs are getting close to it. And hate to tell you just how many 300 mile range EVs only use 120vac charging. So how do they manage that big boy? And I don’t care what you pay your electrician because you are too incompetent to do it yourself. It’s only a hard wired extension cord and a breaker box. Or be smart enough to run an RV cord where doable.
I JUST left this for him as he keeps making assertions with NO links to prove his side of the argument. Methinks they are so arrogant they believe we should just take them at their word without proof. I don’t do that.
GraniteGrok: No examples to support your Narrative of “getting close” and “you can charge “300 mile range EVs only use 120VAC”. As the above citations, it certainly CAN be done – it just takes HOURS. Quite a few, as it turns out (75 hours for that Mustang or did you ignore that 75 hour time period?).
And had left this for him earlier to bring his assertion right back in front of his nose – don’t let yourselves get pulled off into side issues:
GraniteGrok: I dryly note that you didn’t mention your assertion of “12 minutes to 75%” in your response. Instead, you’ve tried to change the thrust of the argument. I merely pointed out that making that leap given current state of technology. You’ve given no references to such advances to support your claim – you only launched into an ad hom attack.
It’s only a hard wired extension cord and a breaker box.
And it would be against code to run an extension cord that far – underground conduit had to be run for THAT idea of yours.
ALL utilities in my area have to be underground including those to out buildings. Could I do such right now? No – but that’s because I have other things in the fire (like keeping GraniteGrok going). But I do believe that IF I wanted to, I could learn to do so – but it’s an irrelevant argument.
freedomev: Be stupid, pay more dude.
Note that not ONCE did he actually discuss his claim in proving it. This is what Socialists do – make the claim and then never factually address it. They ALWAYS want to turn the argument back on you and make you appear to be stupid, uneducated, a redneck, an extremist, and dull as watching MSNBC or CNN.
Just be ready to turn it back on them. In this case, as has happened in the past, let them talk. And talk, and talk some more. Let them make themselves look and sound stupid by what they say:
GraniteGrok:
Be stupid, pay more dude
And thanks, once again, for proving my assertion concerning eco-socialists.
However, there was one person that responded to the post and it was clear she was new to this issue – I had never seen her before but she asked the right question that most of us have given the much higher cost that EVs have and that cost results in a much lesser of a car (e.g., much smaller):
Pattie: How exactly is EVERYONE supposed to afford to buy an electric car and what happens to all gas vehicles?
There were a few answers but it was clear from her next response where she really is:
Pattie Laren Corie • 6 days ago
Regardless i eat one meal day so buying a new car isn’t possible..got it?
This is one HUGE aspect of the blinders that Socialists, of whatever strip they are: ONLY the Narrative matters as they “progress forward” to the dystopian future they will force upon the rest of us. Immediately, I could see that she’s in tough times – she’s poor. THEY don’t care – they are selfish. Either get with the program or drop dead.
GraniteGrok: Once again, Pattie, we see the eco-socialists all too willing to spend YOUR money regardless of your actual means to pay.
They haven’t learned what the word “assume” stands for – or don’t care. Empathy at the Individual level isn’t a strong suit for them.
And this made my day:
Pattie: Thank you..you get it.