Yesterday, I shared a Right To Know (“RTK”) demand to see the minutes of a non-public session. Seems like they decided to disobey the law (RSA 91:A) and not provide the “responsive records” that would satisfy the demand.
UPDATE: Since I started this yesterday, there’s been an update – the non-public minutes have been forwarded. Note, however, how BRIEF they are compared to the public session minutes. See at the end of this post. And noticed that the embarrassed one refused to sign the non-public session notes.
S0, it’s off to the NH Attorney General to sharpen a stick with which to poke them.
From: Terry Stewart <yrrets@aol.com>
To: attorneygeneral@doj.nh.gov <attorneygeneral@doj.nh.gov>
Sent: Sun, May 23, 2021 6:02 pm
Subject: Fwd: Right to Know Request per RSA-91-A/Hudson NHPlease see below as of today ( May 23,2021) there has been no response from the Hudson Board of Selectmen, the minutes I have requested are not sealed. Could someone in your office please check into this matter for me?
Thank you
Teresa Stewart
22 Tamarack St
Hudson, NH 03051
Good reason to do so – from the minutes of the 5/11 meeting, is this exchange in which it was decided to NOT SEAL the non-public meeting minutes. Thus, they are available for an RTK demand for them. Guess there’s one really embarrassed Selectmen to be (Brent Gagnon). My emphasis to point out the important bits so you can scan through it quickly:
Selectman Gagnon said no just an addition into Section 11, sir, would be the following statement. Selectman Gagnon objected to the discussion once the Board entered non-public based on RSA91-A:3 II A and B.
The Chairman replied, I disagree with you, Selectman Gagnon. And you objected after the conversation was all done. That’s when you raised your first objection. After we were all done discussing. You said, by the way, I want the minutes, first, you wanted them sealed for someone that wants everything disclosed. And then you said that you were objecting to us discussing something that was not on the agenda and you did all this afterward
Selectman Morin was recognized and said I find this kind of humorous, actually, because he did say that he was against us discussing it. But once we were done and he realized what the whole situation was, he wanted to seal the minutes so nobody knew about it anyway. So I’m kind of confused about what he wants here. Because here we say, you know, we can’t do this, but as soon as it’s all done and he understands where this is going to go, oh, I want to seal the minutes. Chairman Coutu replied, his name wasn’t even mentioned.
Selectman McGrath was recognized and said just to clarify when this first came up, I had no idea who Selectman Morin was talking about. Talking about somebody that actually put some information out on Facebook which put the first responders of our Town in jeopardy, put their lives in jeopardy.
That information, I had no idea what they were talking about. And I couldn’t believe that someone would actually do something as foolish as that. Mr. Gannon spoke up and said it was him that he posted something on Facebook and it was about some activities that the Police Department was going to take.
So we pre-informed the people that might have been impacted by that action so that they could not be arrested, not be charged and maybe put the lives of the officers in danger. That was unbelievable to me. Then later, as the discussion continued, Mr. Gannon made a motion to seal the minutes so that he can hide behind the closing of the minutes so that no one would know that he had actually done that.
I think that the residents of this Town ought to know when one of our Board members puts lives in jeopardy and puts the lives of our employees in jeopardy. Disgraceful, disgraceful behavior. To now make changes to what was actually said at that meeting, that’s further information about this member, this new member to our Board.
He’s willing to advocate in his byline to everything that he prints, that he’s an advocate for the right to know law, unless, of course, it pertains to him and his activities.
The Chairman then said, I just want to, if you will, my question would be to you, Jill relative to page 11. I’m sorry. Item 11, do you recall, you keep the minutes. Do you recall, Mr. Gagnon? And stating before we started the conversation that he objected to the non-public meeting. Ms. Laffin responded not prior to the conversation.
Chairman Coutu then asked at what point did he discuss his not agreeing the matters we were discussing, was not relevant to RSA 91:A? Ms. Laffin replied towards the end of the discussion, after he recognized himself as the person that was being discussed, he asked me to let the record show that the BOS is discussing something other than the reasons listed to go into non-public.
Chairman Coutu asked, so after the conversation occurred. Ms. Laffin replied yes. Chairman Coutu asked did you hear him raise an objection. Mr. Chairman, I object, correct? Ms. Laffin responded I don’t recall an objection to the Board. Just in general.
Chairman Coutu then asked Ok, so where did you want this inserted, Selectman Gagnon? So just for clarification, sir, I think what you may have been referencing currently is some discussion I had about the non-public meeting minutes.
This was simply a small note in the public meeting minutes that would state that Selectman Gagnon objected to the discussion once the Board entered non-public discussion based on the RSA 91A:3 2A & B, that’s all. Just wanted that simple statement in public.
Chairman Coutu then said, are you saying that prior to going into non-public session, you objected to going into non-public session? Selectman Gagnon responded, no, sir. Let me see if I can help clarify.
So we have public minutes and we have non-public minutes. So in the public minutes and this is actually recommended by the statute, which if you’d like, I can I can hand it to you. The Chairman said, I have my own. Selectman Gagnon continued saying the statute says that if an objection is raised during a non-public, that a note needs to be put into the public minutes. And that’s all I’m trying to accomplish, sir, is just following what it says to do.
Chairman Coutu said that’s what I’m questioning. When did you make this pronouncement that you objected to the non-public section?
Selectman Gagnon replied, Ok, I understand your question, sir. So when we were in non-public, we declared a topic for non-public. We discussed those topics declared and then we diverted to a different discussion that wasn’t declared during non-public. And once that discussion started happening or rolling, that’s when I believe I raised my objection. Chairman Coutu responded saying, you raised your objection at the conclusion of the entire discussion which you participated in. You stood there and you raised your hand, and said seeing as I’m the elephant in the room and you started conversing about it and you were trying to whatever you were trying to do, correct the record or whatever, and then you wanted to hide the minute you wanted to seal them. Selectman Gagnon then said, so I believe I asked Jill politely to add to the record that I object. Chairman Coutu responded, who did you ask politely? She is not the chairman of the Board of Selectmen she’s the administrative assistant to the five of us. Selectman Gagnon replied maybe that was my mistake, sir.
I just wanted it to be noted for the record that was all the intent was. So I figured she was taking the notes. Chairman Coutu said, so if I don’t do what you tell me we should do here, am I going to go to jail now? Is there a law that’s going to put me jail? Selectman Gagnon then said, Sir, despite your opinion said tonight, I am not a lawyer. No, sir. But based on the wording of RSA 91:A 2 it says that a note needs to be added to the public meeting. That if an objection is raised, you…Chairman Coutu interrupted saying you raised it to her personally at the end of the meeting. There was no formal objection raised.
Selectman Morin was recognized and he said I’m really confused now because here he wants this thing that he objected, but then he wanted to seal the minutes so nobody ever heard about it. So we’re kind of wasting our time here. Selectman Roy interjected saying, can we move the question please. Chairman Coutu said excuse me you’re out of order. He’s talking. Selectman Morin said I’m all set now. The Chairman said do you wish to be recognized Selectman Roy? Selectman Roy said point of order. Can we can we move the question? Selectman Morin said why because information is getting out you don’t want out? Selectman Roy responded No, it’s because we’ve just gone over the information. There is nothing productive or useful coming out of this conversation. So I would much rather move on to things that actually affect the Town well and help the Town than to continue this discussion. All I’m asking is move the question. If you don’t want to allow. Chairman Coutu asked what Question is there? What’s the question? Selectman Roy responded If we’re going to allow the objection to be in the record? That’s just move the Question. Selectman Morin then said, but Chairman Coutu to Selectman Roy point again let’s move the question because I just said he wants to change the minutes and he wants to make a point that he didn’t agree. But at the end of the conversation, he wanted to seal the minutes so nobody knew. So that’s pretty relevant. Selectman Roy. You know what I’m saying? That’s pretty relevant information, because here we are saying we got to do all this to what’s going to make him look good. But nobody knows that he wanted to steal the minutes so nobody would know about it. So you’re confused. Selectman Roy said that that’s actually in the minutes Selectman Morin. Selectman Morin replied, Excuse me? Selectman Roy said that motion to seal the minutes is in those minutes. Selectman Morin replied, right. That’s my point. So why does he want to change everything else? If he wanted to seal everything so we wouldn’t even be talking about this if it was sealed. Right. Selectman Roy said Ok, we’re not changing anything. He wants to add an objection. Again, I’m just suggesting we move the question. Selectman Morin said “Yeah, just another play around the words”.
The Chairman asked what is the wish of the Board? You want to change what is in here Or What do you want to keep in there? What accurately reflects what we know happened? Selectman McGrath was recognized and said so my point, Mr. Chairman, is that my vote will be to keep the wording as it is, as it’s in the minutes now and not changing it to revisionist history. Chairman Coutu asked, is that your motion? Selectman McGrath responded yes. The Chairman asked do I have a second. Selectman Morin seconded it. The Chairman then said so the motion is to keep the minutes of the April 27, 2021 meeting in tact as written. Not revised. The Chairman asked if there was discussion. Selectman Gagnon was recognized and said Forgive me. I’m sorry this has caused such a scene. I did not mean it to do this. And I’m going to read it right here. It says, upon request, the public body shall record the member’s objection in its minutes of the meeting. If the objection was discussed in non-public session. The objection shall also be recorded in the public minutes. I’m just simply trying to do what it says to do. Chairman Coutu said and point well taken. But you don’t you don’t raise an objection to someone who’s not a member of the Board and tell them privately, hey, by the way, you know, I want to I want this recorded that I object to this, please. If you have an objection about something that’s transpired now, it’s going to be very careful about what we discuss in nonpublic. Trust me, if they come in here and say the buildings being bombed, you’ll be the last. I’ll tell because you’re reporting that I spoke about it. All in favor of keeping the minutes as they are on April 27. Signify by saying I all opposed no OK record to believe it was four in…
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UPDATE: Non-public minutes:
I was told that lawyers had told them to keep these minutes “vague” on purpose. My response?
Which is why seeing 1,000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea is just a good first start….
