Yet another example of the Eco-Socialists being just DANDY about the use Government on behalf of THEIR issue. Your lowly blogger rushed in because while they are all virtue-signaling about getting rid of single-use coffee cups to save the whales, that’s not really the Principle at stake.
It should always be “what is the Proper Role of Government?”
As has been pointed out many times, you should be thinking twice, thrice….almost an infinite number of times before letting Force (for when everything has been said and done, Government IS Force, plain and nasty) take sides on an issue. Or brought to bear on ANY issue that should rightly be discussed and solved in the Civil Society realm (collapsed as it is from Progressive forced Government crowding it out of existence).
Yes, again, from TreeHugger where most of the Eco-Socialists smile a few times a year (a most dour bunch because all they see is doom and gloom all around), we have another round of Eco-Socialism vs Freedom. Or, if you rather, MY issue versus “just let me make my own decision free from Govt”. I know, a mouthful – or in this case, a big slurp:
Vancouver’s approach to coffee cup waste is too weak
Single-use cups don’t need more sorting. They need to be eliminated.
Vancouver is trying hard to go green. The western Canadian city has made more progress than most others in the country, with bans on foam food and drink containers and plastic straws, restrictions on plastic grocery bags, and an ambitious goal to be zero-waste by 2040. Perhaps most impressively, it has shunned compostable plastics, refusing to see them as a viable alternative to petroleum-based plastics, due to the harm they cause wildlife. (Only San Francisco has done the same with straws, while other cities embrace compostables as a way to carry on business as usual.)
A never-ending topic in which persuading a few politicians or bureaucrats to take up YOUR particular issue and then FORCE others to comply. After all:
Just like Chris Pappas trying to get rid of NH’s “Live Free or Die”, a Santa Barbara Progressive [Socialist/Communist] councilman accidentally admitted the goal of the far-left is to rule the rest of us and Freedom be damned”:
Referencing the new law criminalizing the use of plastic straws, Councilman Jesse Dominguez said, “Unfortunately, common sense is just not common. We have to regulate every aspect of people’s lives.”
Because these Eco-Socialists, like any other garden variety Socialist or Communist, can’t stand the idea that the rest of us should have a say in how we live our lives. In fact, they don’t believe we can (are you listening to some of the quite disparaging stuff that present Democrat Prez Wannabee Michael Bloomberg has been/did say about most of us? There’s a reason why “Nanny-in-Chief” is starting to trend). Freedom is a foreign concept to them so once again, into the fray.
Read the article – it is clear, as with any other Leftist notion, be it here or gender dysphoria, it’s all about the rest of us not having “evolved” to their level and understanding. We’re just stupid; we have to be re-educated as to what our thinking must be in order to have “right thoughts and actions”. So here’s the latest conversation (reformatted, emphasis mine):
Brian
Starbucks only gives a 10 cent discount to use their reusable coffee cups. That’s not enough. The discount needs to be at least 2 dollars to be effective. I try to use my reusable coffee cup as much as possible and save almost 1 dollar by doing it at my convenience store. We need to eliminate single use paper or plastic cups at their source. The same is true with plastic bags. Although San Francisco banned plastic bags, they still sell their reusable bags cheaply which can be used 100 times, which is good, but the bags are still bad for environment. It’s better to just ban single use cups and bags completely. Charging 2 dollars for a single use cup or bag may seem harsh, but considering the pollution caused by these single use cups and bags, and the overcrowding in our landfills, it is justifiable, and frankly the only way to stop this pollution and garbage that is ubiquitous in our city streets.Sure thing – we all live in a San Francisco third world hellhole so we ALL (and that’s The Plan And The Way) are guilty and we ALL must be punished appropriately. Two bucks penalty for not using a reusable cup I have to bring with me everywhere I go? Yeah, that’s all we’d need is to have 300 coffee cups taking up space in the jet’s overhead bins. Response
GraniteGrok
Sure thing – $2 rebate for each cup served into reusable? That’s economic insanity. Which means that in order to offer that, the coffee shop will have to jack their prices up – way up (in the case of a simple cup of black coffee). Price inelasticity comes into play and I bet, except for the most profligate drinkers, people will go elsewhere.So Brian – how much of the US land space IS used for landfills?
And he just doesn’t get it. Guess he’s never run a business and had the economics slap him both in the face and in his wallet. That’s seemingly the case with ALL these people – real world economics should never / WILL ever get in the way of their “good intentions to save you, me, and the world”. The idea that other peoples’ money belongs to, well, other people, never seems to make a dent in either their craniums or hearts. The Right to Private Property? Heck no, we’re SAVING THE PLANET!!!Brian
If the customers are given a 2 dollar discount for simply bringing their reusable coffee cup, the price of the coffee would be the same, so these coffee shops would not lose any money. It cost $2.50 for a regular cup of coffee at Starbucks. Add 2 dollars to that only if the customer doesn’t have a reusable cup. Otherwise charge the regular $2.50 price. If all coffee shops and convenience stores did this, customers would be forced to bring their reusable cups to save 2 dollars, and the businesses would not lose any money. This would dramatically cut down on the cups that we see everyday littering our streets. In addition it will lower the volume of waste that goes into our landfills.
Right, that’s a BIG IF there, Brian. So if I owned a coffee shop and I normally charge $2.50 for a regular coffee…
Sidenote: I don’t drink coffee so I have no flipping idea how much it costs other than MacDonald’s, I think it’s a buck a cup. So how would that go, “here’s your cup back and we lose a buck on the deal”? Yeah, that’ll last long…
That means I get 50 cents. Er, no. How many people are going to stay and pay $4.50 for the same thing?
GraniteGrok
Who is going to pay $4.50 for a plain black coffee? Certainly not me and I’m not going to carry around a cup with me all day long.So when others think and do the same, price inelasticity kicks in. Then what?
But BRIAN CARRIES ONE! So why shouldn’t everyone else? But at least he is starting to get the idea of price inelasticity (e.g., real-world economics):
Brian
I use a reusable coffee cup. I don’t carry it around. I leave it in my car or in my house, clean it once in a while, and use it when I get coffee at the convenience store. it saves me money. Of course no one will spend $4.50 for a cup of coffee, so they will bring a reusable cup to save money. If we don’t force people to change their habits and use reusable cups or bags, how are we going to stop the litter and garbage that is ubiquitous in our streets and contributes to overcrowding in our landfills? The term refers to a levy, or tax, on the use of plastic bags or cups for carrying purchases from groceries and other shops. The rationale is that if the government taxes the use of plastic bags or cups, whereby people have to pay for each plastic bag or cup they use at a shop, which used to be free, then more people will stop throwing away the plastic bags or cups after one use and re-use the bags or cups or bring their own reusable cups or reusable bags. Each jurisdiction where the levy is implemented provides for exceptions to the levy that vary from place to place. Alternatively, some places have simply banned the use of plastic bags or cups for shopping.
And we’re back to “We have to regulate every aspect of people’s lives.” and this:
NH State Rep Leigh Webb (D): “The role of government is to legislate behavior“
Gosh, I was taught that Government was instituted to protect our Liberties. What do I know, right? Look, if he wants to VOLUNTARILY do that, good on him. More power to him. Let him beam with pride.
Just get off my lawn, willya Karen? So I get to the real part of my point (which he isn’t getting)
GraniteGrok
If we don’t force people to change their habits
The Bigger the Government, the smaller the citizen. And you are completely on board with using Government to restrict other peoples’s choice in their own lives simply because “Good intentions”. What are your penalties for people NOT comply with your “good intentions”? Fines? Jail time? Some other loss of their Liberty? Think VERY carefully before answering.
At the risk of being moderated out again, that’s not Freedom, that Totalitarianism.
Is that what you really believe in and want? And trust me, this Principle is FAR more important than just a coffee cup (certainly is to me).
He misses again, calling it an “inconvenience”. But all in the service of “sacrifice”
Brian GraniteGrok • an hour ago • edited
Well remember Ireland increased the plastic bag fee by 15 cents in 2002, and it led to a 90% reduction in the use of plastic bags in Ireland. Kenya and Rwanda banned plastic bags and it cleaned up their environment tremendously. I’m not for a heavy handed government approach that forces people to comply, but that is necessary here. Maybe 2 dollars is too high, but the point is that we must do something to stop the plastic waste that is killing our marine life in our oceans and going to already overcrowded landfills. Are you saying Kenya was wrong to ban plastic bags which were killing their animals and polluting their environment because it was mandated by their government? Sometimes the government does need to step in and mandate laws if they are necessary to protect their environment. I realize it is an inconvenience to have to use a reusable cup or bag to get a beverage or something from a store, but that sacrifice is necessary to save our environment. So I guess we just have to agree to disagree here.
And on it goes. Look, we Conservatives get a bad wrap for “hating the environment” and those casting that at us are dead wrong. After all, we live in this world, along with our families and friends. We have kids just as much as they do. But I remind you of what the event areas look like after TEA Party / Trump campaigns and what it looks like after a Democrat one. One is rather well and voluntarily policed and the other has trash and signs just left all over.
And he just admitted what was clear all the time. Except for him:
GraniteGrok
I’m not for a heavy handed government approach that forces people to comply, but that is necessary here
Actually, you’ve just admitted that you have no problem with a “heavy handed government” as long as it is your issue.
So, my dear readers, how have you handled similar situations? I restrained myself – I didn’t use “up yours!” even once!
Have you defended Freedom even once today? I ask because if we don’t, they are certainly itching to take it away.
