This week, on GrokTALK! we take a walk down conversion therapy lane: laws that were passed whose language tells you everything you need to know about Democrats, what they want, how they rule, and what happens when you don’t toe the big blue line.
- Ten years ago
- Don’t let them be heterosexuals
- Free Speech/Viewpoint discrimination
- Truth about Conversion Therapy
- Chiles v Salazar
- New Hampshire and Colorado (RSA 332)
- More truths about conversion therapy
- Conversion Therapy Law IS the Democrat Party
“Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire.” – Gustav Mahler
Watch on the ‘Grok Rumble Channel if the Embedded Video does not load.
Related Links:
- https://granitegrok.com/national/2025/10/macdonald-are-conversion-therapy-bans-about-to-be-banned
- https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/24-539_fd9g.pdf
- https://granitegrok.com/blog/2022/07/wanna-trigger-a-leftist-jordan-peterson-on-the-other-conversion-therapy
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3enLBUJ5Od0&t=2s
- https://granitegrok.com/national/2025/05/the-trans-agenda-is-gay-conversion-therapy
- https://granitegrok.com/right-rally/2026/04/morning-update-thats-not-health-care
- https://granitegrok.com/national/2026/04/macdonald-body-and-mind
- https://gc.nh.gov/rsa/html/xxx/332-l/332-l-mrg.htm
Authors’ and Speakers’ opinions are their own and may not represent those of Grok Media, LLC, GraniteGrok.com, its sponsors, readers, authors, or advertisers.
Edited transcript:
Welcome back to another edition of Grok Talk, brought to you by GraniteGrok.com and Grok Media LLC. Thank you for tuning in. My apologies for last week. It just didn’t get done. We weren’t able to get a program out. No excuse. Yeah, there were lots of excuses, lots of reasons, and some, actually, some very good ones, but still no excuse. So anyway, we’re back. And as the headline infers, there are lots of lessons to be learned.
From the idea of conversion therapy. And if you go back 10 years to 2016, New Hampshire Democrats had proposed a conversion therapy bill, which eventually became law in 2018 when a Republican governor signed it. But when it first came out, it was kind of a new concept to me. I wasn’t familiar with it. I’d probably heard it in passing, but the idea was
A little offensive,
Mostly because it was very one-sided. The goal was to make a case that it was wrong to counsel someone
Who might be attracted to the same sex, that this in fact might not be best for them. Statistically, anywhere from eighty to ninety-eight percent of preteens who, if you just left them alone, gave them a little encouragement, treated them like a normal human being, would grow up to be perfectly healthy heterosexuals. No drugs, no surgery, no hours and hours of therapy, no controversy. Just kids growing up like they always do.
Well, conversion therapy was an idea that somebody was purposefully harming children by refusing to let them be homosexuals. And it may or may not have happened. There could have been a few instances, but what the conversion therapy laws did caused
exponentially more harm to children and their families and sometimes to the general public. And we’re gonna kind of take a look at some of that today. So back in 2016, when that bill first came out in New Hampshire, HB 1661, I wrote about it.
Children or parents who want to seek professional guidance with more than one potential outcome might as well not bother. The only solution available under the law will be to instruct the child that whatever feelings they may have about their sexuality, they cannot be heterosexual.
So it was literally an anti-heterosexual piece of legislation. Gay way or the highway.
It’s like some kind of state-sanctioned gaystapo recruitment program.
To add weight to the idea that statutory gender discrimination and occupational fascism are a reasonable role for government to assume, the sponsors have prefaced the legal limitations with a number of references to studies that support their premise. They do not, however, provide any content that questions it. Ultimately, that wasn’t even the issue.
You will probably have heard, and we will talk about Chiles versus Salazar. You cannot tell people what they can and cannot say. The government is not allowed to do that.
Now, if you work for a hospital and they pay your salary and they pay your benefits, as we saw in COVID, they most certainly can tell you what to say. That’s a private arrangement, almost always. Private companies can manage you.
That way, and you’ve gone into their employment, very likely having signed some things that you didn’t read, like you should have, that exactly explain that. This is different. The Constitution exists to prevent the government, be it federal or state, from infringing on a certain relatively short list of rights with which you were born, no matter whether you think you’re in the wrong body or not.
Again, that is why there is no such thing as trans rights. Oh my God, I’m triggered. Too bad. It’s true. Every one of us, no matter what we wear, who we pretend to be, what occupations we pursue, the color of our skin, the religions that we follow, the things we choose to believe, we have the same rights.
When you begin to have a situation where you want a right that nobody else can have or that some people can’t have, that’s not a right. That’s you just want something, and you want to use the government to do it. And that’s what this was.
So a few clips to preface the rest of the conversation, things that I’ve said in the past. We’re gonna share this one first because this will really trigger the lefties. It always does. This is Jordan Peterson basically just dropping the bomb on conversion therapy.
[Peterson clip]
I also have a clip that’s part of a morning update that I did back in, I believe it was April, that talks about this problem: how gender care is not health care, gender transition surgery, gender transition drugs, hormone therapy. These are not health care. Take a look at this.
[Morning Update clip]
So now that we’ve adequately triggered the softer-souled individuals who are at the same time more likely to commit violent acts than anybody else, it brings us to thank the Lord, Chiles versus Salazar. A talk therapy therapist in Colorado challenged the Colorado law, which is very similar to the law in New Hampshire, which we’re gonna read in a little bit.
And she said, Why can’t I just talk to people about things they want to talk about if they happen to want to talk about how they feel like they’re a boy attracted to boys, but they really want to be attracted to girls? The law prohibited this. You literally could not do what the patient asked without risking your license, your career, your practice, everything. This is what the government did. The government’s viewpoint discrimination law strangled therapy that would help children be who they wanted to be. So much for Be You, right?
And I don’t mean Boston University.
So Chiles versus Salazar, it’s a good, it’s a fabulous read. If you want to take a look at it, there’s a link underneath the video on the post page. And I only grabbed a couple experts ex excerpts. I only grabbed a couple of excerpts because there are many of them, and we could spend hours just going through that and going, look, see, see, this is, it’s this common sense right here. You can’t do this.
So quote, the First Amendment protects the inalienable right of every individual to decide for himself how best to speak, and laws regulating speech based on its subject matter or communicative content are presumptively unconstitutional, triggering strict scrutiny that requires the government to prove its restriction is narrowly tailored to serve a compelling state interest.
Viewpoint discrimination represents an even more egregious form of content regulation from which governments must nearly always abstain. As applied to Ms. Chiles, Colorado’s law regulates the content of her speech and goes further to prescribe what views she may and may not express, discriminating on the basis of viewpoints.
The law permits her to express acceptance and support for clients, exploring their identity or undergoing gender transition, but forbids her from saying anything that attempts to change a client’s sexual orientation or gender identity, including efforts to change behaviors, gender expressions, or romantic attractions. Her speech does not become conduct just because a government says so, or because it may be described as a treatment or therapeutic modality.
The First Amendment is no word game and the exercise of constitutional rights cannot be circumscribed by mere labels. The fact that the state’s viewpoint regulation falls only on licensed healthcare professionals does not change this equation.
Now, in the New Hampshire law, I didn’t read the Colorado one. It’s pretty broad. They tried to include just about everybody who might be labeled as a therapist, which is funny because we’re talking about a situation where you aren’t supposed to brand somebody who’s queer as being this gender or that gender. And yet the conversion therapy law pretty much prohibited anybody who might serve in the capacity as a therapist or an advisor from saying anything but what the government wanted them to say. The people who passed the law, in this case, the Democrat Party, the gaystapo, the Rainbow Mafia.
So the Colorado law, much like the New Hampshire law, much like every other state that passed one of these, threatens fines, probation, and loss of license simply for expressing a particular view and does not allow clients to consent to practices that depart from the prevailing standard care.
New Hampshire statute, chapter 332, L1 through L3, prohibits conversion therapy, by which they meant any effort by any professional to help someone align what I call their mind with their body. So Chiles v. Salavazar means the entire statute is unconstitutional. But the statute is still on the books in New Hampshire.
It’s probably still on the books in several other states.
The New Hampshire law says in this chapter, conversion therapy means practices or treatments that seek to change an individual’s sexual orientation or gender identity, including efforts to change behaviors or gender expressions, or to eliminate or reduce sexual or romantic attractions or feelings towards individuals of the same gender.
Remember what I said just a little while ago?
The only solution available under the law will be to instruct the child that whatever feelings they may have about their sexuality, they cannot be heterosexual.
So let’s think about the deliberate psychology of this.
You can talk about it, but only if you affirm what the government has instructed you to affirm. Even if the patient doesn’t want that, you can’t help them. These laws locked patients out of care on purpose while requiring therapists to engage in viewpoint discrimination and violation of their constitutional rights, regardless of their professional opinion.
A partisan government interest superseded professional mental health science. And if you disobey the mental health experts in the legislature, at least in New Hampshire and obviously everywhere else there is such a law,
Any licensed professional is listed in paragraph one who proposes to engage or engages in conversion therapy, their definition, on a patient under eighteen years of age, shall be considered to have engaged in unprofessional conduct and shall be subject to such discipline as the relevant licensing authority deems appropriate.
You do what the government (or the licensing cartel) tells you, or you can’t do it at all. Now we go back again to what did Mr. Peterson say? What have we been saying for 10 years? What did the young lady who’s a lesbian who spoke out against conversion therapy say? What you’re doing, not just the drugs and the surgery, but everything, is conversion therapy.
So operating under the premise that hearsay could get you to lose your license, therapists were trapped in a corner. And what happened? We had a rise in suicides, drug use, drug overdoses, and escalation of mental health disorders. Mental health clinic admissions, suicide, whatever admissions, and even mass shootings.
Again, your mind and your body are not in alignment, and conversion therapy- the real conversion therapy- the drugs, the hormones, the surgery, don’t align your mind with your body. They push them farther apart. And they lie to your mind, and your mind knows the difference. It doesn’t matter what you think. You and your body. Your goal is to align them. If you are gay, great. If you were lesbian, gay, great. Adults, you’re adults, consenting adults to what you want. None of my business. Don’t get the government involved, even though you always do if you’re progressive; you can’t help it. So some of these kids are really confused, and they’re confused because people confused them.
Teachers confuse them, librarians confuse them, Drag queens confuse them, the internet confuses them. And the solution to that problem was just to stop doing that. Just leave the kids alone. How many times do we have to say it, leave the kids alone?
Adults do what you want, not the children. Leave the kids alone. Take all that stuff out of the schools. They shouldn’t even be talking about it. Nobody should be talking about gender or sex before anybody gets into or through puberty. And then we can talk about what you think might work. But I guarantee you that if you just didn’t talk about anything other than normal sexual human behavior, everybody would grow up perfectly normal, which tells us that that’s absolutely not what they want. They want these people messed up and confused.
New Hampshire’s law literally excluded the most dangerous forms of conversion therapy (from the definition), the ones that Mr. Peterson talked about, in the law. So not only could you not help somebody be heterosexual, you had to help them be this.
So conversion therapy shall not include counseling that provides assistance to a person undergoing gender transition or counseling that provides acceptance, support, and understanding of a person or facilitates a person’s coping, social support and identity exploration and development, including sexual orientation, neutral interventions to prevent or address unlawful conduct or unsafe sexual practices, as long as such counseling does not seek to change an individual’s sexual orientation or gender identity.
The problem, of course, as I’ve already mentioned, is that the schools are engaged in conversion therapy every day. If you had a kid who doesn’t even he isn’t even thinking or talking about sex or gender, if you hand him a book, a cartoon book, whatever that talks about sex and gender, you’re grooming them. That’s conversion therapy.
Doesn’t matter what you’re doing it for. Doesn’t matter if you think it’s good for them. It’s not. We already know that. We know that all the interventions from surgery to therapy to hormones do not improve the outcomes. Not even a little. In fact, they may make matters worse. All they do is in enrich drug companies, hospitals, surgeons, the WPATH people who are being sued left and right and not nearly enough, have pretty much led the charge on this. And all it’s really done is enriched some people at the expense of children.
And Democrats fight tooth and nail to defend this. They just won’t give up. First by denying that you have a right to choose to be heterosexual and the sort of therapy that you might need. And then using conversion therapy, literally the law, to convert people through therapy to their desired ideological outcome. Ideological? Ideological outcome.
People who were previously not even interested in talking about sex and gender. So finally, these are children, your children, your neighbors’ children, your family’s children, over ninety percent of whom are likely to just turn out perfectly normal if left alone. And again, if they manage to get to adulthood and this is what they want, they can pay for it. They can explore it on their own
They can travel to different states and countries. Nobody’s gonna stop
So we have to ask why they can’t leave the kids alone. Why won’t they leave them alone? Forget transgender rights, even. Why won’t they leave the kids alone? The progressive program is unpopular once you figure out what they’re doing. But if you can brainwash children or make them incapable of any kind of serious examination of the facts. if they can’t do that, and that’s what public education does, then you’ve got them for life. And then once you’ve achieved one-party state, it doesn’t matter anymore what they think because they have to think what you think, which is a lot like intervention therapy, which is kind of the entire point of this podcast this week.
Democrats don’t limit this thinking to kids.
Conversion therapy as a law isn’t just a bad idea that harms people. It’s who the Democrat Party is. It doesn’t matter what you want, what you think; progressive ideology and the Democrat Party’s political priorities come first. So if you read the way the law was written, how was it written? You will do what we tell you. Don’t you dare say what we don’t want you to say, and these are the outcomes you’re allowed to advance. None other, or you will be punished. That’s the Democrat Party.
That’s progressivism, that’s socialism, Democrat socialism, and Marxism. We tell you what to do, how to do it, when to do it, where to do it, how much it’ll cost, if you can even get access to it, whatever it is. And if you don’t like it, too bad.
Just take that idea and filter it through everything they do. And you’re gonna be batting a thousand. I mean, you’re not gonna get it wrong. They will define the words, the terms, the outcomes, and you will get less transparency, and whatever it is, it’ll be riddled with fraud, failure, worsening outcomes.
And well, I mean, you get to pay for that. That’s your reward.
And that’s it for today. That’s it for this week.
I hope it was worth your time. See ya next Monday.
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