As a TEA Party person, it should be clear that I have been watching the Occupy Wall Street movement but lately, a lot of it from outside of NH. I haven’t been to one of their rallies since doing the videos a few weeks ago, but have been observing and commenting over at Occupy NH – a forum for those interested in debating the issues that are of importance to them. There are a few Libertarians that are involved, which has given it a flair that is most unlike what you are seeing in the TV and online news as they decided to, given the call to be "inclusive", put in their two cents on individual freedom.
Not being able to help myself, I have, er, made a few comments from time to time to make sure that the TEA Party principles are heard (under the monniker of ConservativeTEAParty but letting people know who I really am). After all, if I cannot win in the arena of ideas, I deserve to lose.
Here are a couple of posts from the more "committed" NH Occupiers:
- There is a tendency to have govt be in charge, and the more the better: In a global society with no borders, we will need a world bank and a world governing organization. Countries (borders) are things we can do without. The people of the whole world are facing the same problems.
It is nice to see that since Obama has endorsed this movement that they think just like he does – a Post-America America. Another overriding them is that "the 1%" (according to OWSers, these are those individuals that control the 42% of the wealth in America) have illegally and illegitimately from the rest of us "the 99%".
- Definitely agreed. I believe the 1% are using the state as a tool to steal from the everyone else. We must take those resources they have plundered back! However, taxation is not the mechanism to do it. Taxation simply doesn’t go far enough, and the rich are always able to avoid paying those taxes by forming Cayman Island/Swiss bank accounts and what not…
And indeed, much of this movement is centered around these two main themes – equality via Government, and taking from others they believe what is justifiably theirs. One made a comment on equality:
I’m not an economist by any means, but I believe workers have the right to be paid decent and livable wages. I’m all for income equality.
So, I decided to challenge him:
"Decent" and "liveable" are rather subjective words – in the category of "in the eye of the beholder" and "I know it when I see it". But when it comes to compensation (to the worker) and cost (to the employer), it has to move to more objective definitions and have very real consequences. Again, I have been on both sides of the equation – I have been courted by different companies for what I do and offered higher level of compensation as they competed for my services (nice if you are the employee) and there are times when I have been let go because the total cost of my compensation (when biz was bad) was more than the biz could afford.
All that said – what is the "liveable" wage to you, on an hourly basis or a salary? What is a "decent" wage, and how does that differ from "liveable"?
"Income equality" – does that mean that all people can only earn the exact same amount? Regardless of their innate skill levels, work experience, motivation, hunger to succeed, willingness (or unwillingness) to work hard and / or for long hours?
Funny thing at times – when you ask many of them what they really mean, they never answer back. As many on the Conservative side of the issue, is decent & livable $20/hour? $10? $50? And why should you receive the same as someone who is either much more qualified or much less qualified?
Their emphasis is strictly from the worker’s position – and the question is never brought up "can the company afford it"? After all, in our capitalistic system, the purpose of every employee (when you really get down to brass tacks) is to contribute to that firm’s profit. And profit is a necessary signal ("people before profits" be damned) to the owners that either they are doing the right things – or the wrong ones. And if the latter, there will be no people – just a big CLOSED sign on the door.
