Illegal Immigration - a "discussion" - Granite Grok

Illegal Immigration – a “discussion”

Pat is striking back here!

An anti-immigration friend of mine (it seems like that describes all of my friends lately) sent me a taunting e-mail that reads: “Hey Pat: John [Hawkins] says you’re wrong.” Appended to the message was a link to John’s latest column in Human Events.

Taunting was fine (and it was, in good fun).  But I do take exception to the "anti-immigration".  If anyone has actually READ what I do (or LISTENED to me, Pat   8^)  ), I am anti-ILLEGAL immigration.  I have nothing but admiration for those that have taken the massive amounts of time, money, and strife to emigrate here legally.

Xenophobic?  No, Pat is going over the top with that one…..I welcome those that are here LEGALLY – Pat just continues the tradition of making it personal by categorizing those that disagree with him with a racially, emotionally laden word.

But he is my friend, and in the evangelical tradition of which he writes about ("In Defense of The Religious Right by Patrick Hynes), I forgive him. 

Well, if you have been listening to the radio show, Meet The New Press (or the associated podcasts here), you know that Pat, Doug, and I have a big difference in opinion on illegal immigration. Simply and quickly, Pat believes that we should offer a guest worker program now and offer amnesty of some type (e.g., illegals don’t have to go to their home countries first before applying).

Well, I kicked off something, as I was on RightWingNews and saw what John had written here:

So, what comes naturally? I sent it to Pat with a gleeful look on my face:

Hey PAT!

John is saying that you’re wrong!




(titter, titter)


The money graphs are the following:

Since the election, you may have heard pro-amnesty Republicans or liberals saying something like this, "The 2006 election proves that being tough on illegal immigration doesn’t work as a political issue. Look at J.D. Hayworth, John Hostettler, Randy Graf and Henry Bonilla. After that debacle, the GOP is surely going to cave on illegal immigration now."


In other words, about 9.6% of the tough guys on illegal immigration lost, while 25% of the amnesty crowd went down to defeat. Along those same lines, these numbers from the same article seem to be rather compelling:

  • 11.5% of all Republican seats in Congress were lost as Democrats took back control of Congress
  • But only 6.7% of the members of Tancredo’s Immigration Reform Caucus lost their seats.

So now Pat want to play here, so I will oblige him.

Pat, being a political consultant, sees the world through that lens. I, on the other hand, am just a software engineer, viewing the world through results. Also, being a conservative, my world view is shaped by conservative principles – one of which is “laws matter”. Putting aside the political expediency arguments that Pat has, mine is rather simple (sorta like Reagan’s when asked about fighting Communism – “We win, they lose”). Just because there are millions of illegals here does not make it right – laws have been broken and there should be penalties for that. Otherwise, why bother to have laws? Simplistic? Sure! But go ahead, fault my logic.

But Skip! We cannot deport them all! The answer is “don’t have to”.

I am a proponent of “first things first”. First, shutdown the border traffic. A physical wall is not the whole answer, but certainly it cannot be stated that it wouldn’t help. Then, layer it with the high tech stuff that we are so good at. That would address that part of the problem.

The other part – what to do with those already here? Well, look at the model of the IRS – it does not have to prosecute all tax cheats – just some and make sure the word gets out. In the same way, when ICE does a crack down, it does have an effect on others. Next is to dry up the social incentives to be here – if the welfare society’s checks and benefits stop coming to illegals, that source of revenue dries up. Next, boost the penalties and enforce the laws that govern employers hiring illegals. And I don’t give a hoot about the arguments about raising the cost of everything and the destruction of our economy if the illegals go home – a REAL serious study would show an effect but nowhere the size that the illegal advocates (and Pat to a degree) espouse. Fine the heck out of the companies AND hold senior management criminal responsible.

What happens? Without sources of revenues, the illegals will go home. When one rewards bad behavior, you stimulate more bad behavior, not less (Pat will slowly learn this the hard way now that he has TWO offspring…ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!). Remove the carrots, employ some stick, and the problem will start to heal itself.


BTW, Pat, Doug, and I will be welcoming John to MTNP this Saturday, WEMJ 1490AM in the Lakes Region of NH from 204pm (603-527-1490 if you want to call in). We don’t have live streaming yet but we are trying to get the Management to put it in for us. In any case, I’ll have the podcasts up on Sunday sometime (watch for the announcement).