A blog debate - me and Peter "DaTechGuy" Ingemi on the NH GOP, The Brand, and sending a message - Granite Grok

A blog debate – me and Peter “DaTechGuy” Ingemi on the NH GOP, The Brand, and sending a message

Got GOP forkPete is a good friend of the ‘Grok and any time we are at an event and he shows up, he knows we have a seat ready for him.  That said, we can still disagree with him from time to time, and when he decided to take on my post here, it certainly is worthy of a response.  He disagrees with our stance on no longer giving our vote away to the GOP’s “least worst” choice on a ballot:

Yup, scapegoating their voters – good job on gaining and influencing “friends”.  You didn’t give those 31 million Republicans a good enough reason TO vote – and you are blaming them?   It’s like going to the store – why buy an inferior product when one was looking for excellence?  Humphreys sounds like the Party is entitled to my vote simply because there is an R associated with my name.

Once again, the GOP and NH GOP have got it absolutely backwards – I don’t HAVE to “buy your product” if it does not meet my needs nor my expectation of excellence. In fact, you are asking me to be contrary to myself just so that you feel good.

In effect, we are no longer satisfied with an NH GOP that fails to seek and implement Excellence; too often, they are willing to accept a warm body to fill a gap and that is especially true if they can be self-funding.  They have no problem in violating “Winning is merely a precursor; it is what you do afterwards that is important”.  Unfortunately, a lot of “winners” turn out to be losers when it comes to actually implementing, full bore, the Republican / Conservative agenda (most notably in the 2010 season when we handed the NH GOP veto-proof majorities and in a number of really important issues for the base, threw up air balls.  Excellence includes winning – but is so much more.  But Pete responds:

Skip is absolutely right, the New Hampshire GOP has not earned the respect of conservatives like him so they have a lot of nerve after kicking them in the balls to ask him for their support post primary for candidates that don’t appeal to their palate in the least….

….so I imagine it’s going to be a bit of a shock to the people who have read up to this point that that’s exactly what I’m going to urge Skip and my fellow conservatives in NH & elsewhere to do.  I’m urging them to support the GOP nominees in the state and federal elections whoever they are. Why? Why?  Because while Skip’s point is strong it has a fatal flaw:

It’s like going to the store – why buy an inferior product when one was looking for excellence? Humphreys sounds like the Party is entitled to my vote simply because there is an R associated with my name.

Actually it not.  During the Market Basket work action I was able to boycott Market Basket because there were other sources of food & supplies available for me to get the basics from so I could do without. An election is not like that.  A candidate is going to be chosen, as John Adams put it:   Public business must be done by someone and if you decide to give the power to the democrats they will take it.

Pete has a valid point – but only to a point.  Sure, he is right in that in the consumer product area, he has the choice of competitors.  And he did – he chose to not go to Market Basket either in support of the labor-mgt issue going on OR that it didn’t have the product(s) he desired.  I will assume the first, which meant he settled for second best.  And he would be right in this case but is shows HIS flaw – a man (and his family) gotta eat to survive.  A different situation and different needs and this example is really the round peg to my square NH GOP hole.  He’s got a couple weeks to survive without food – and that’s it.  In politics, that time frame is different.  It is also a different Marketplace – effectively there are only two providers (effectively) in this marketplace.

Conservatives are damn fools if they give power to liberal democrats because the republicans are asses. So what is the proper answer is Chip’s [sic] solution is not viable, well an excellent suggestion came from his compatriot Mike Rogers gave the answer Nov 9th 2012

No, I’d be a damn fool for continuing to vote for someone that doesn’t share my values and actively works against those values. Unfortunately, in our State limited political party “marketplace” (re: all the laws that safely ensconce just the Democrat & Republican Parties) there are few options (hey, just like Obamacare – and NOW ask the DC Repub if they are going campaign on repealing….oh wait, they aren’t!).  If the Repub Party’s stated Principle is for limited government and against the Democrat agenda item of Obamacare’s Medicaid Expansion, why should I support Republicans that implements what the Democrats desire?  Look, I know that you, Pete, are in MA where a Conservative Republican there would be considered to be a Milquetoast Squish here (Example: Scott Brown), so your level of Excellence differs from mine.

I will say that he points out what Grokster Mike has said:

The time to take over the GOP (state by state) or set up a real third party (let’s call it the conservative party, like NY state), is NOW, after a historic election that demonstrated the ineptness of the “Wizards of Smart”. The time NOT to talk about and vote for a third part candidate, or stay home and pout about rules that work against you is DURING an historic election, when one of the evils is immeasurably worse than the guy you can’t quite warm to.

This very day Skip & Co should be researching and preparing the paperwork for a New Hampshire conservative party or researching existing 3rd parties in the state so Tea Party & 2nd Amendment activists can shift to them en masse the day after the election. NH is a small state, such a move would have an earth shattering effect of the GOP state party and a sobering effect on their candidates and the direction they go.

That has been going on for a while – and this year, we see that the Establishment wing of the Party has been viciously going after the “upstart” candidates that wish to replace the incumbents (re: Steve’s posts on the NH Senate Republican PAC that has been blowing 10s of thousands of bucks to prop up and keep both David Boutin and Nancy Stiles safely in the bosom of the Cronies of the Repub Party in the NH Senate) instead of embracing those that better represent the Party’s ideals.

I will say, Pete, that I keep hearing that as the NH GOP Establishment elected officials continue to drift Left, a lot of people are telling me that they are leaving the Party as the Party has already unmoored itself from its stated positions. Once again, my “conversation” sums it up well:

Consistency also comes with listening.  There is a large problem confronting the NH GOP – formerly dedicated Republicans, giving of their interest, time, and treasure, are just throwing in the towel.  They are dropping out and tuning out.  They no longer believe their efforts are worth it when these ‘individual contributors” look up at elected leaders and go “So, what’s the difference between the Parties?  So, what difference am *I* making”?  And for each question, one answer suffices for both: “er, not much”.  So, they quit.

Yet, some in the Party can’t under stand, grok it, and then act upon it.    I tried to explain this to a female Republican of some note a bit ago:

Me: there are Republicans out there they are no longer voting nor donating to the Party.  They’ve quit.

She: Well, why ARE they doing that??  Don’t they realize that this will allow Democrats to be elected?

Me: They no longer care

She: WHY don’t they care?  Don’t they understand what this means for implemented policy, they are allowing Democrats to win??

Me: They realize that.  They don’t care anymore.

She: They HAVE to care – Democrats will win if they just stay home.  Don’t they realize that?

Me: You’re not listening to me, and haven’t been for a while.  You have made them not care.  Why SHOULD they care when Republicans do things at cross-purposes to what they say they stand for?  Why should they support candidates that, in the end, don’t support their beliefs?  When they don’t see their beliefs being advanced?

She: But Democrats will win?!?!?!

Me: Now you’re making me not care much.  Whether you like it or not, whether you want to admit it or not (and I think you are at the point where you don’t want to SEE what they are saying), these people exist. They are dropping out, and you can’t seem face reality even when I put it in your face.

The long and short of it, you Republicans “of note”, the Establishment Republicans (or as I now say “Republican Republicans for the sake of the Party”), aren’t listening.  They make it sound like they do, but they aren’t.  How to tell?  The voting data says the truth – these people have left.  Stayed home.  Sat on their hands.  Kept their wallets shut.  You may say what you want, but what the evidence says contradicts you.  They are telling YOU their answer to your question of “where else will you go” – and now you aren’t listening to that answer either.  Too bad.

You’ve told lots of folks: do it our way or go away.  So, they’ve done what you’ve told them and have gone away. And now you don’t believe it. I’m telling you where they are going, and they are all telling you where to go, too.

They. Don’t. Care.

And then the Biggest Flaw that DaTechGuy has in his argument shows up:

Until that progressivism & liberalism have to be stopped or at least checked, even if we have to do it with alternatives that are little better than stone knives and bearskins.

Stopping??  Checking?  Not even a speed bump? Can’t happen when NH GOP Republican elected officials (re: the RINOs in the House and the Rogue Republicans in the NH State Senate) keep pushing for and voting for the Democrat Agenda.  In fact, they are PROVING that Pete’s mantra of “least worst” isn’t – it’s just worst.

The purpose of my counsel is to send THE message to the NH GOP – if you want my vote, EARN it.  Act according to Principle.  Right now, you are representing the Democrats – when the Rogue Republicans vote for Medicaid Expansion and NH State Chair Jennifer Horn or the Executive Board remain silent, they are complicit.   And just like any “rent seeking” organization, both Parties have used the force of Government to squash any competition to themselves.

So, again Pete, why should I lend support to Party members that actively support my political enemies’ agenda? 

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