A sharp exchange. A very sharp exchange…

by Tim Condon

….between me and a Democrat supporter of Obama, from yesterday. First, the taunting that came at me in the wake of the Obama election victory…

…from my estwhile opponent Joe, who is a wealthy, highly educated white male living in a very expensive section of Tampa, Florida where the houses typically sell for a half million dollars and more. He is responding to my “You Own It” comments posted earlier on GraniteGrok:

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:22 PM, Joe <joedbradshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Tim.

I don’t have time to completely respond to your earlier comments, but just a few off the top of the head comments about the Republican political conundrum:

1. Stop demonizing any American who isn’t a white male.
2. Become familiar with the “genuine” needs of those Americans who, for whatever reason, have been unable to get a foothold in the competitive culture of capitalism.
3. Participate in the governing of the country in a manner that considers not only the most wealthy on Wall Street, but equally the needs and aspirations of the most destitute among us.
4. Jettison completely the extreme wing of the party which wants to utilize the governing mechanism of the country to force their vision of “morality” on those of us who don’t look to their belief system for such guidance. Morality is a personal matter for some, and a religious matter for many. And they are the reasonable forums for Americans to turn to in their individual quests for their moral paths.
5. Stop denying science and facts, i.e., global warming, evolution, non-partisan economic studies… This practice has become so extreme that a thinking, learned individual can not support the good parts of conservative ideology, given the out and out ignorance spewed by so many in the party. “Evolution and embryology are LIES straight from the pit of HELL”, and this guy sits on the Senate Science Committee, the panel which decides the scientific investments made with our money.
6. Stop practicing such blatant ideology at the expense of the interests of our country, i.e., the debt ceiling intransigence on the part of the Tea Party, Sen. Mitch McConnell publicly announcing that “the number one priority of the Republican Senate is to make certain that Barack Obama is a one term President”, implemented with the utilization of the filibuster more than TWICE as many times as have been employed by any Congress in the history of the country, the rejection of traditionally Republican ideas for political gain, including health care reform (Obamacare is essentially the same as Republican ideas of the mid nineties (those who utilize medical services have an obligation & responsibility to participate in the cost of health care), the rejection of Obama’s proposed jobs bill (estimated to create 800K to 2.4M jobs by 5 independent non-partisan organizations, including Moody’s), the rejection of the Veterans jobs bill, a bill co-written by four Republican Senators, ALL of whom voted against their OWN bill, ostensibly because Obama mentioned the bill in Charlotte at the DNC convention, in order to prevent Obama to claiming success for relief for highly unemployed vets returning from the middle east…

Frankly Tim, I could write a book detailing the illogical ideas and practices employed by TODAYS Republican Party. I don’t know if you remember my sharing with you that I was a 30 plus year economic Republican, couldn’t bring myself to vote Democratic as a matter of fact. But, I’d say ten years ago, Republicans became more concerned with what two men, or two women, did within the privacy of their own homes than with the governing of OUR country. Well, sorry, that is not only not their job, it is morally repugnant. The statement that “many members didn’t leave the Republican party, the Republican party left many of it’s members”, is true, for many many people in this country like myself. And now, the party is exponentially worse than when I could no longer be a part of any group espousing such odious practices.

You state the only option for the Republican Party is to become Democrat lite, and that this is doomed to fail. Your point that the party can only mimic the Democratic party is wrong, but right that it’s doomed to fail if attempted. Get back to the “pragmatic” problem solvers the party once was, adopt a genuinely “positive” belief in ALL Americans, accept that the countries demographics are not, nor will ever be, what they were during the Reagan 80′s, start looking forward to what a world economy with a scientific/technological future really means to our country, instead of espousing a return to decades old policies that were only moderately successful at best (the reality is, the good ole days have never been as good as remembered and claimed)…

STOP MYSELF, I really have to go. I have to get back to work harder than I have been working for quite some time, in that MY espousing higher taxes will necessitate more gross income to maintain my current financial position. But I must say, since achieving a certain level of success, the amount of taxes I pay is no longer an issue to me. As a matter of fact, I’ve concluded that having to pay a TON of taxes is a good thing, in that the greater my tax obligation, the greater the amount of income I’ve earned. It’s simply a “cost of doing business”, an obligation those of us who have been successful owe for the “privilege”, and good fortune, to have born in a country which has provided the opportunity for our success. And frankly, 35%, 39.5%, for that matter, 50%, wouldn’t bother me. Why? Because if I choose to, I can go forth, do the extra work it takes to increase corporate income by, say, $1M, and guess what, I keep $650K, or $605K, or $500K, any of which is a goodly amount of added income. This argument that the “job creators” will not take advantage of money making opportunities because of tax rates is complete and utter bullshit. Successful business people succeed! And in a competitive capitalist economy such as we inhabit, believe me, the least challenging part of success is the tax paid on profits. By that point, you have already won! Taxes are a minor afterthought to the real effort required to create the profit to start with.

GTG, I’ll return for a complete discussion of these matters when I have time, along with the “other” hundred items the “true” Republican party used to stand for.

Just my opinions, I could be wrong.

Joe

Oh, btw, I do have to get in one little dig. lol Are you aware that EIGHT of the top ten states that receive the greatest per capita federal government largesse are RED states. Such a funny joke, but to painfully ironic to muster a laugh. Frankly, I was very conflicted about supporting the Republicans, just to see the look on the faces of those Americans who wear hats with tea bags hung for them, when they realized that, “we have seen the enemy, and it is US”. Can you imagine their reaction to the knowledge that through their own ignorance, they themselves had put the gun to their own heads, and a Romney win would have been the trigger pull. Now that would have been a real scream, lol.

Now my response to Joe:

On Nov 12, 2012, at 8:50 PM, “Tim Condon” <tim@timcondon.net> wrote:

You are deluded, Joe. You’ve drunk the statist Kool-aid. Most of what you spewed out in your tirade is just straight BS, right out of the talking-points of the Democrats. Socialists have always been the chief BS’ers, promising the world and delivering the same thing that every statist hell hole has always delivered: Equality of impoverishment and misery. We know what the U.S. Constitution—with it’s checks and balances against statist power—has delivered over the past 250 years, an extraordinary civilization that benefited everyone (our “impoverished” enjoy higher standards of living than the middles classes anywhere else in the world). The key to such an incredible outpouring of wealth and generosity was the chains of the Constitution that bound the grasping political class and its deathly siren call of envy (one of the cardinal sins, whether you are a believer or an atheist). Now you and yours have finally burst those bonds. The Constitution means nothing in the face of you and your Obamabots delivering the delirium of equality without responsibility. Face it, Joe: You OWN it. What happens next to America—and to Western Civilization as represented by Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and other failing polities—is yours. You and yours voted for it. Now sit back and enjoy it. It will be exceedingly ugly and exceedingly painful, but you’ll sure get “equality,” which is all in the end that matters to ideologues of the left. As Winston Churchill presciently said, “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” For all your false, talking-points BS, that is what you and Obama and those who voted for him will now deliver to the people of America. Wallow in it.

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  • Tim from Nashua

    A lot of people have, in essence, been paraphrasing an old saying, ” If Socialism is inevitable, we might as well bend over and relax our sphincters.”

    No thank you, I’ll pass on that particular ‘pleasure’.

  • A. J.

    Well, Joe does make some good points, not many.
    The Republican Party no longer offers me anything either; they just don’t get it.
    But Joe should take a look at the Libertarian Party, listen to Ron Paul and Gary Johnson, and read the Constitution. He might find the Democrat Party doesn’t deserve his vote either.

  • KenEyring

    Nice piece, Tim. Churchill also said, “If you’re not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you’re not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”

  • Ed Naile

    Tim:
    In the first sentence this moonbat calls you a racist.
    Pretty much sums up progressives.
    It is because they live in a world inside their heads. You should only use moonbats as a chance to educate.
    This guy lives in a gated community, cleansed of any minorities except the help.
    A shrink would tell you he is trying to subdue his liberal guilt for oppressing minorities.
    But he does it with other people’s money, no guilt there.

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  • Catherine

    oh, this IS good. your friend Joe says when taxes go up he can go forth and earn a million dollars to pay for them. That’s awesome because that means I can just sit on my duff while Joe works for me. He won’t mind, right? I have a horrible hangnail that prevents me from working. (that’s that “for whatever reason” in his 2nd point).
    and i had to laugh at his 4th point. We can’t force our morals on him, but he sure as hell can force his morals on us. why? well he’s learned! is that what makes him more moral than I?

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